IS
YOUR BOSS A PSYCHOPATH?
Q102:
We were talking about
bosses and some that are villains. We've already told
you about body language in bosses and all of the tricks
of the trade that they will perpetrate upon you. And earlier
on, Michael Barry told us about psychopaths - a number
of people in touch with us have already said, "Yes,
I work for one of those."
But
what exactly are the parameters that are sought when it
come to selecting leaders, managers, bosses and people
of that sort? Rowan Manahan is the managing director of
Fortify Services and he works with big companies hiring
and training management and staff. Good evening Rowan
and welcome back to the programme.
Fortify:
Hi Scott, nice to be back.
Q102:
What are the parameters, the criteria,
you use when you are measuring ... have you got some sort
of Vernier scale or a calipers or some such when you are
hiring these people?

Fortify:
Well, when we are working with a large organisation and
we are hiring senior management - up to and including
Board level - clearly we are looking for people who can
make an enormous impact, a difference, in the organisation.
A classical methodology that we would employ is stringent
background checking on the individual, whereby we are
verifying that what the individual is claiming on their
CV is true. We can all claim that we can "walk
on water and raise the dead" on our CV, but
unless you actually have a verifiable track record in
doing those things, the likelihood is that you are not
going to be able to produce that performance, to that
level, going forward ...
So
for instance, at CEO level. At that level, we are looking
for someone who can do basically 4 things: someone who
can set the strategy for the organisation and get that
strategy approved by the Board, who can raise and allocate
capital necessary to make the business a success, who
can hire and fire the appropriate team, and who can create
a defined corporate culture within that team to achieve
the overall strategic targets that have been laid down.
Now
there are very tightly defined rules and regulations in
corporate law within which that individual has to work.
BUT - if you look at what that individual gets rewarded
for - what his or her bonus is paid on - you will see
at the end of the day that it almost always comes down
to top line performance, bottom line performance, maybe
market penetration and share targets. So what happens
is, all the big corporations in the world have wonderful
corporate credos - "We operate within
good corporate governance, we treat our employees with
dignity and respect" and so forth - but the
fact of the matter is they are operating in a pressure
cooker and the pressure is on to PERFORM.
So
if somebody of the ilk that Michael (Barry) was discussing
earlier on, somebody with defined psychopathic tendencies,
has made it into that system, into that organisation,
and focuses their psychopathic tendency on 'making that
target' well then the organisation, frankly, loves
them! They are making the numbers.
Q102:
So the organisation loves them,
but is it a happy place for you and me to work?
Fortify:
Very unlikely Scott. And you can end up with an Enron,
a Worldcom, an Adelphia, a Tyco
at the end of it all, because these people are not
capable of thinking about the long-term consequences of
their actions ...
Q102:
Because they don't care?
Fortify:
Because they are devoid of healthy emotion in that way.
Q102:
So, if they are incentivised to
produce X% market share within this time span, that IS
IT ...
Fortify:
In some cases, that is it ...
Q102:
Whatever it takes? That's a little
scary Rowan.
Fortify:
It's not the norm, but it does happen. In most organisations,
things run on a healthy level and management strike a
balance between concern for productivity and concern for
staff and concern for adherence to something other than
the laws of the jungle in order to attain these
targets and then there are those very small few - and
I must stress that this pattern of true psychopathic behaviour
is, fortunately, very very rare - but those small
few will go all-out. "Who cares what's in the
way? Run rough-shod over it ..."
Q102:
That latter group you just mentioned,
in some respects with the way corporate life works with
targets being set up by boards and Wall Street having
certain expectations - are those rare few actually better
candidates, from the perspective of delivering what's
required?
Fortify:
Not necessarily, and certainly not if you want your organisation
to survive in the medium to long term. Because clearly,
these people are not building their strategies on solid
foundations and there will always be a great deal of duplicity
going on if you have someone who is classically psychopathic
at the helm. Again, building on what Michael was saying
earlier, the clinical psychopathic is a pathological
liar. They are almost incapable of telling the truth and
one of the biggest power trips that they get is this perception
they have that they are 'putting one over' on the whole
world. But as Lincoln famously said, "You can
fool some of the people all of the time and all of the
people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the
people all of the time." It will eventually
catch up on you.
There
are so many checks and balances, there are so many audit
trails, so many electronic trails now - just look at the
€450 million paid this week to the Revenue Collectors;
these people thought that their off-shore accounts were
absolutely inviolate! "There'll never be a problem
with this. How would anyone ever find me, when my account
is in Timbuktu?" Well guess what, you left a
paper trail ...
Q102:
So to ask you finally then, those
people who have these tendencies - should they be screened
out when you are looking for candidates at this level
as Michael was saying? Chief Executive for example ...
Fortify:
There is a great deal of screening that already goes on
at senior executive level. Many organisations require
full-on psychometric profiling before the individual is
even considered for the final stages of interview -
Q102:
How valuable is psychometric profiling?
Fortify:
Very valuable. It can be a very useful indicator for the
right personality traits, the mental toughness needed.
More specifically now, and to answer your question, the
2 psychologists that Michael referred to (Hare
and Babiak) have developed the B-Scan 360. This is a 107-point
questionnaire that is not answered by you (so
your pathological lies won't be taken into consideration
here Mr. Psycho), but rather is answered by your peers,
colleagues and subordinates - they will grade your personal
style, look at your approach to interpersonal relations,
your antisocial tendencies.
And
they do this under a number of very unpleasant headings
like: Unreliable, Parasitic, Unethical, Bullying
(which we are hearing so much about in the workplace
and in the courts these days), Arrogance, Insensitivity.
Now underpinning that is hard science. The B-Scan
is a somewhat lighter version of the full-on PCL-R, which
is the test used by psychologists in clinical settings,
typically on Death Row, where they are trying to get inside
the minds of these monsters - the classical psychopaths.
With
the B-Scan in the corporate setting, we are looking at
somebody who might be displaying a psychopathic tendency,
but who is manifesting that tendency in what is ultimately
a more socially acceptable way, which is generating large
revenues for a corporate entity.
Q102:
Well, that's all fascinating stuff.
Rowan Manahan, thank you very much for your time today.
Fortify:
Good to talk to you again Scott.
Q102:
Rowan is the MD of Fortify Services
here in Dublin. Thanks again Rowan.